tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post1734284069356221934..comments2023-09-12T10:29:30.353-07:00Comments on Tales From Midlands: MIDlands Charater CreationBrooser Bearhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-38516325977565023742013-09-18T15:39:26.105-07:002013-09-18T15:39:26.105-07:00Neal,
You can argue for power gaming, or for anyt...Neal,<br /><br />You can argue for power gaming, or for anything else from 3000 miles, or from across the globe. I run a game. I run it however I see fit. You too can have a D&D game of your own, and you can run it however YOU want! Your observations re: experience were not independent, they were slipshod, having nothing to do with the arguments as I stated them, and what's the point of having a discussion if you are insisting on ignoring what I am saying?Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-64613867385265761252013-09-17T23:41:05.468-07:002013-09-17T23:41:05.468-07:00Brooser Bear,
Since, on September 7, you stated y...Brooser Bear,<br /><br />Since, on September 7, you stated you only did in person games, any statements I made as ideas I was throwing out there on experience, can't be construed as me trying to power-game anything. If I'm saying again, on September 10, that my observations about experience being something that would make sense you would gain by leaving a dungeon and going back to a field you could practice in, is a fair observation. Since there isn't a chance to do any gaming, I'm clearly not guilty of power-gaming, nor can you use that as a reason for being frankly abusive to me. If I live 3000 miles away, and there isn't a game without face to face, it's clear I have no plans to manipulate my way to any kind of gains.<br /><br /> Contrary to how you are trying to frame this, this isn't about me needing to convince you of my good intentions, this is about you being very defensive about someone else's independent observations that were not attacks on you, but you responded with real attacks. If you have any intellectual and moral integrity, I think you owe me an apology for treating me as though I was being manipulative, and being abusive about it. It was hurtful. I've dealt with enough abusive people and those that can't recognize it aren't worth any more of my time. How you treat people, when you may have to retract actions against them, speaks to who you are, and I have enough self respect that I only deal with people that show respect to me as a matter of course.Nealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-59612298954800932772013-09-13T18:33:13.501-07:002013-09-13T18:33:13.501-07:00Neal,
you came across like a power-gamer, trying ...Neal,<br /><br />you came across like a power-gamer, trying to negotiate a faster skill growth game mechanic. <br /><br />You are not going to convince me on this one. I have enough sense to know when a prolonged dungeon siege will count as a single "adventure" in that tenting near the dungeon and only coming up for air to heal, sleep and memorize spells is a lot like a year long deployment or an extended patrol, and when there are several week-long separate missions taking place, each counting as a separate "adventure". One thing that you may be missing, is that it is not just a single skill that get a chance at improvement, but every skill that was used successfully during the course of adventure.Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-696437880771947952013-09-13T16:44:31.967-07:002013-09-13T16:44:31.967-07:00Brooser Bear,
That's really not accurate or f...Brooser Bear,<br /><br />That's really not accurate or fair. You were making straw man arguments that were very condescending of me. <br /><br />If soldiers on deployment for a year or more at a time, are too stressed out to exercise in gyms, and then lose physical fitness, and may get injured because of that loss, that isn't a week adventuring and then returning to town to recouperate. Those are two widely separated situations, and it's not comparable to adventuring in short bursts.<br /><br />Since, those are two separate situations, like I stated, and bringing long-term stress induced/lack of exercise, etc isn't relevant. It's a distraction from the simple situation I was bringing up: One week/one month of adventuring, followed by going to town to absorb the experience and practice it, or gain XP. That's reasonable. If you don't do it that way in your world, just say so, and it's fine. No reason to drip all this hostility! What ever happened to a give and take of friendly ideas, without sarcasm and condescension? Why be so defensive and angry? I'm being completely polite, and getting a huge amount of hostility in return. That isn't any way to treat me, or anyone. I would assume there isn't any reason to argue that hostility is necessary, is it? You're obviously angry, if you can't point to something I said that shows me initiating this exchange with rudeness, please do. I don't see me being rude, so why treat me like this?Nealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-85690025062433483092013-09-12T18:40:59.029-07:002013-09-12T18:40:59.029-07:00Actually... you do.
For starters, read my previou...Actually... you do.<br /><br />For starters, read my previous replay again. I did not say that soldiers in Afghanistan suffer physical injuries, because of lack of field experience. What I said, was that troops in Afghanistan suffer physical injuries because (among other reasons), THEY NO LONGER EXERCISE AS MUCH AS THEY DID WHEN THEY WERE BACK HOME, and as a result, their physical fitness level deteriorates during the months on overseas deployment.<br /><br />Second, I told you that:<br /><br />1 - I am thinking of character growth in terms of critical incidents and significant emotional experiences, ones attained during combat.<br /><br />2 - Skill Mastery, or gaining experience is a function of emotional growth and self-confidence building in a face of a very stressful and potentially traumatic experience, that is combat, same as "D&D melee" or "adventuring", and for that process to solidify, you need emotional closure and putting the experience behind you.<br /><br />3 - RuneQuest skills represent a lifetime achievement and personal growth. <br /><br />You seem to ignore the whole model on which the MIDlands skill improvement is laid out, and insist that the definition of "adventure" is arbitrary (okay, instead use the "combat exposure incident") and you would do a 5% gain in skill every three or six months, citing the experience of the Navy sailors.<br /><br />Very nice, but where does it address or touch on what I was talking about? The Navy technical training experience might be useful somewhere else, but not in a medieval combat game, is it? You are not responding to anything I am saying, so what am I to say to you? Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-28411190495163245882013-09-11T23:42:15.640-07:002013-09-11T23:42:15.640-07:00Brooser Bear,
Hey... that sounds pretty touchy an...Brooser Bear,<br /><br />Hey... that sounds pretty touchy and accusative. Relax dude, I'm not attacking your system. I thought this was about friendly sharing of ideas, back and forth? I'm not in favor of having anyone 'practice on my teeth.' I think I'm making reasonable statements, and it's not fair to equate them with me looking for automatic success, or anything remotely to do with 'instant gratification,' 'munchkinism,' etc. <br /><br />If troops overseas are getting injured due to a lack of experience in the field being processed, that doesn't refute what I said. The idea I was floating, not insisting that you were wrong for not using it... just floating, was that the PCs could either have a monthly/ 3 months/ 6 months roll that was NOT AUTOMATIC, but at normal chances of success, in a continuously reducing probability of success. The second idea, was to retire from the adventure after a week (which is something troops overseas can't do, so it's not a fair accusation!) and go to a town, where they can absorb the ideas. Or practice them in a dojo, spar in an open field, etc. Those are sensible, adult ideas. If you don't want to adopt new ideas, that's fine, just say so. "I like how I do things, and I don't have any enthusiasm for altering my systems. They have worked for years, and they're about as perfect as I need without any more work on them." Ok, I'm not arguing with whatever your reasons are. I was nothing but polite about sharing my thoughts. Why chew into me, like that?Nealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-80973726433464941882013-09-10T02:40:28.922-07:002013-09-10T02:40:28.922-07:00I don't know about you, my dentist has 20+ yea...I don't know about you, my dentist has 20+ years on the job, and I turned down a kid straight from med school. You, no doubt would let him practice on your teeth. I can't tell you how many medical staff missed my veins on try 3, so I prefer older ones, who get called in later anyway. When soldiers are on deployment they are too stressed out to actually improve their physical training. Gyms over there actually only help them maintain the shape they are already in, and I know guys who suffered injuries overseas BCAUSE they fitness level deteriorated while they were running over the canyons and the ridges. <br /><br />To improve skill requires increased confidence and reflection, emotional qualities where closure actually has an impact. You can do anything you like in your game. I just find automatic success, boring, just like munchkinism, but, you seem to be going for instant gratification, and that is always popular. Whatever rocks your boat.<br />Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-4327731761672489582013-09-10T01:30:50.113-07:002013-09-10T01:30:50.113-07:00Brooser Bear,
Well... my sister is a nurse (RN). ...Brooser Bear,<br /><br />Well... my sister is a nurse (RN). They learn how to insert needles pretty well from practicing on family members before they leave nursing school, and if that isn't enough, they learn it on the job with many, many patients, giving multiple shots each day, within the first year in a hospital. Diagnosing other things, RNs are only allowed to do so much low level diagnosis, since that is the physician's job, in some cases the Head Nurse's job. But, those are very specialized jobs, and not the norm of nurses or LVNs. Lawyers are very eager to bring lawsuits for that stuff, and hospitals are rightly very paranoid about that. There's a saying about why many doctors pay $200,000-$300,000 per YEAR, on medical malpractice insurance, while lawyers (who commit more crimes each day - than a so-called 'career-criminal' in and out of jail) pay about $5,000 a year for legal malpractice insurance... the saying is "Why do doctors pay so much more for malpractice insurance than lawyers?" "Because lawyers sue doctors, not the other way around." And it's absolutely true!<br /><br />Yeah, I've looked at Meetup, and local groups in my area, as well as the local game-shop website for game nights, and groups. I don't doubt I can find people online, I'll probably do that. Probably something like 75% of communication is nonverbal, so I see your point. I have seen online fantasy games where the players used video feeds, shown on youtube, so that's one alternative.<br /><br /><br /><br />I wasn't aware that it took 8 years of combat experience for an Urban environment, but it sounds reasonable. House to house is the most dangerous for the soldier. Too many civilians you aren't supposed to injure, and too many of them may be assassins, or children/retarded teenagers, with hand grenades, who have no idea they are being used for jihad (this has happened since Nam, and in Israel). Not to mention snipers at windows and rooftops, or taking civilians hostage on the street or in their homes. It gets nuts. The jungle is actually safer!<br /><br />My point about adventures being an arbitrary period to learn from something still stands. An adventure can last a few days till you go to town, or years of siege. During wars, which are one long adventure, without let-up, often (think British shipmen on ships for 7 years in the age of sail), they advanced from midshipman to lieutenant and on up the ranks, from learning on the job each day. The way I'd probably go about skill advancement checks, would be to say "If you use skills successfully to save somebody, or improve the game in some way, then you get to roll to improve each of those skills one time per month/ 3 months, whatever." I think a gain of 5% a month, at least to start is reasonable. It can taper down to 1-3% a month later on, or it can taper to 5% checks every 3-6 months. If you figure what your starting score is, and add in successes (not automatic!) each month for 6 months, that would be a 30% gain. After that, you get improvement checks every 3 months(?) and 5% if successful. The knowledge gets more abstruse. People learn most in the beginning (think soldiers in boot camp, or infants learning half the skills they'll need in life in the first 3 years, I think the figure is). Every year or two years, you learn half the remainder of the skills you need to get through life. How many more social skills does a 60 year old have that a 50 year old doesn't? You've learned most of those skills by that point. Less and less as time goes by, usually. Something to think about.Nealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-25494584024368630232013-09-08T12:26:22.130-07:002013-09-08T12:26:22.130-07:00Neal, how do you figure that someone fresh out of ...Neal, how do you figure that someone fresh out of school is at the same level of professional skill as someone with 30 years of experience? A degree in Nursing might give you basic tools to do your job, but it takes years of experience to insert IV needles into veins the first time around, recognize clinical symptoms at the first glance at the first instance they appear and perform life saving intervention. Same goes for the tactical skill. US Army considers urban battle to be the most dangerous combat environment. It believes that a soldier needs a minimum of 8 years in the infantry unit to get the training and experience that a soldier will need to be properly aware of his surroundings and be ready to fight in an urban environment. A Midlands skill rating represents the lifetime mastery of the craft or a skill and not just the basic educational minimal. Personal growth occurs within the framework of critical incidents and significant emotional events in a person's life. Going off into a wilderness adventure for a week before going back into the mega dungeon would not give the person the required closure and reflection. If you sit on a dungeon siege for three months, pursuing the same adversary, that would be the same mission, same adventure, regardless of whether you went into town for two weeks rest or not. Now, if the mega-dungeon was there all along, before and after the players came and went, and the players went on a specific mission into the mega-dungeon, and came back after completing it, THAT would count as a single adventure for skill improvement purposes.<br /><br />You are not conceptualizing the AD&D Rangers correctly, especially the ones in MIDlands. Check out the AD&D Second edition the Complete Book of Rangers. Ludicrous, preposterous, staff hack-written drivel, BUT they got some of the stuff down the way I see it, and it should you a better idea of what a ranger is versus a fighter with a lot of wilderness skills and hunting/tracking ability. <br /><br />PNP means Pencil and Paper. 75% of human interaction (as in involved multiple narrator story-telling) is non-verbal communication that gets lost over the internet, Skype and other remote communication means. Which is why I only do face to face. You can probably find a D&D gaming group if you wanted, or start your own! Check out Meetup.com website for your area for D&D gaming groups. Look through or advertise on Craig's list, I got players through there. Go down to you local D&D gaming shop and ask the staff about any local gaming groups and also if there is a local gaming board. Of course, there are people, who hide behind the internet from the hostile world. I hope you are not one of those. Good luck finding a local game. Let me know how it goes! Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-29937033913747948982013-09-07T21:38:38.166-07:002013-09-07T21:38:38.166-07:00Brooser Bear,
Ah... I assumed you ran online game...Brooser Bear,<br /><br />Ah... I assumed you ran online games, like Google+? Damn. I'm on the West Coast, so not much chance of face to face gaming. What is PNP? <br /><br />Well, re: skill growth. From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:<br /><br />Nurses must graduate from a nursing program. It takes about 2 years of college to attain an associate degree in nursing. It takes about 4 years to finish a bachelor's degree in nursing. And a nursing diploma program usually takes about 3 years.<br /><br />So if you go from 25% to 90%+ in 6 years, that's either too long, or on the longish side. I guess if you have to end the adventure to take in the experiences you've had, basically, that's a good reason for the PCs to take a week away from the dungeon, go to town and rest and absorb/ponder their experiences. Then go back and do more delving in the dungeon. No law that says an adventure has a time limit on when it must start and stop in a specific locale, unless you are going to plant timebombs...<br /><br />Well, that sucks. I guess I'll have to find an online campaign on Google+. Not sure who runs them, but they probably have boards where you can sign up or "walk-in."<br />Nealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-71888889284938722082013-09-07T19:54:34.849-07:002013-09-07T19:54:34.849-07:00Neal,
I'd love to have you as a player in my ...Neal,<br /><br />I'd love to have you as a player in my game, especially as a Ranger, but unfortunately I only play face to face at my place in New York. If you live anywhere near NYC, you are welcome to join. If you live too far, but come to NYC to visit, get in touch with me and I will let you make a cameo appearance in the game as many times as you can make it. I do not play on-line, it is strictly F2F & PNP. Anybody else reading my blog and wanting to join my game and being able to get to it physically, post a comment or drop me an e-mail message, and I will get back to you!<br /><br />With regards to 'adventures" running into months and years, think of the polar exploration expeditions that lasted 2 years and more, that still counts as a single adventure. Here is why. Rolling for skill improvement represents learning from your experience and growing as an individual. You need closure and reflection to accomplish that. Ergo, an adventure needs to end before any gains in skill are made. If you roll one time per month, or even once every three months as a "fair and realistic skill gain" and with an average skill gain of about 3%, you can go from 25% to 90+% in, say Nursing, in 25 to 75 months or roughly 2 to 6 years, and where does that leave master craftsmen who spend their lives getting good at what they do?<br /><br />Even if you wanted to play an elite character, you can choose either way to roll. As an "Every man", you roll 3d6 versus ability and if you qualify, you get the contacts of the man on the street. Ergo the better stats that can be rolled by Dilettantes, who get nothing else beyond the statistical advantage. If after that you want to play one of those elite character classes and you don't have the scores, you re-roll the failing scores to satisfy the requirements.<br /><br /><br /><br />Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-22683409625519620112013-09-07T17:30:48.723-07:002013-09-07T17:30:48.723-07:00Brooser Bear,
How do I roll up characters? Do yo...Brooser Bear,<br /><br />How do I roll up characters? Do you roll for me and keep each one I discard as a mortal enemy?<br /><br />If I choose a Ranger, how many d6's do they get per roll? I didn't quite follow that part. Streetwise people get 3d6 and more connections to people based on Charisma. Dilettantes get 4d6, fewer social connections. Not sure what else.<br /><br />If Rangers are forbidden to play when everyone else is online playing, then I'd probably just go for a fighter, depending.Nealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-53255794201242962562013-09-07T17:26:01.039-07:002013-09-07T17:26:01.039-07:00Brooser Bear,
Ok, I read through everything. Ver...Brooser Bear,<br /><br />Ok, I read through everything. Very interesting take on beginning origins! I've never heard the like, but I've got about zero percent familiarity with anything narrative. Having your ability stats change the number of d6's you roll, very unusual, and neat.<br /><br />I was thinking of a Ranger, or a Fighter. I'm new to this, so those seemed more obvious to use in your campaign. Rangers, it seems are tied to an organization. If the PC is part of a party, online, does this mean my character doesn't get to go along, and has to do solo-adventures, or does it mean, everyone has to go on the Ranger's particular Military Order's requests? If he's part of an organization, that makes things easier to navigate for finding patrons, etc. So, it's not a bad place to start.<br /><br />For the background of Princeling, I originally had in mind a 5th son of a City-state Prince. My reasoning is that he'd be educated, and know how to get along in society, but, be such a distant heir to the throne, that they'd be trying to find some way to just get rid of him. He'd get money for decent armor/equipment and training, but not much of an inheritance. The old saying about having multiple sons as heirs, in case of disease/accident/death: "One heir, and one to spare," was on my mind. As a 5th son, he'd be a literal "5th wheel." Nobody would care much about what he did, so he wouldn't be tied down to a court, and he wouldn't inherit just about anything. Good start for an adventurer.<br /><br />If he got Ranger's training, then he'd have gear, an organization to back him up, give him training, healing, and directions on where to go, at least some of the time. As long as he can participate in gaming that would be good. If there is an online party, and you as GM announce, "Sorry, the Ranger's order has told him he can't play in the dungeon for the next 4 weeks, so Neal doesn't get to do any playing... AGAIN..." that would pretty much make for a suck-character. How does that work, marching off on the military order's .. orders?Nealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-41662230591872049562013-09-07T17:00:08.551-07:002013-09-07T17:00:08.551-07:00Brooser Bear,
I guess if the game time was from t...Brooser Bear,<br /><br />I guess if the game time was from the beginning of May until the end of July, that's not as bad as 2 years of game time. My mistake. However, it's still a very sizable chunk of time to get only one chance per skill used successfully and that saves people. If the PCs do a small dungeon, like B1, In Search of the Unknown, and they go through 40 rooms in a game time period of 3 days, and get skill checks, doesn't this encourage players to steer clear of megadungeons, in favor of small bandit lairs, bear caves, etc?<br /><br />What about a mechanic that allows for PCs who meet the requirements of successful use of a skill that saves other PCs, or whatever in-game target needs to be achieved, and they can roll to increase that specific skill, one time per month/ once per season (or whatever time period seems reasonable)? It seems realistic/has verisimilitude, and doesn't create power-leveling abuses (as far as I can see).Nealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3251496424644654781.post-75222194487822535082013-09-07T16:48:27.416-07:002013-09-07T16:48:27.416-07:00Brooser Bear,
If the chance to increase skills is...Brooser Bear,<br /><br />If the chance to increase skills is once per adventure, that's a pretty good cut off point. This is intuitive at first glance, and probably works as the simplest system 90% of the time, but shouldn't there be a cutoff on how long the 'adventure,' is required to last, before you get to 'start a new adventure,' and begin having the chance to increase skills, again? It comes down to semantics that a 2 year mega dungeon crawl is still just "one" adventure, and not 2 years worth of 1 month-long adventures! It's kind of like saying that 4 years of college is just "one long classroom experience, so you can only learn one new skill, even though you took 8 semesters of 6 separate courses, each semester, over those 4 years.) <br /><br />Is there any reason a party isn't going to think that pursuing a 2 year stint in a megadungeon unreasonably penalizes them for semantic reasons of cut-off points, however? In all fairness, wouldn't they think, "You know, we should wander in the wilderness for a week, cause this is screwing over our chances to gain skills at anything like a fair, realistic rate. Lets come back to the megadungeon in a week."<br /><br />Nealnoreply@blogger.com